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Steam Forums: The thread won’t die!
Just wanted to tell you folks that I’ve been reading Steam forums lately. The thread I started around 8 months ago is alive and it’s been really abused by Steam moderators today.
So what actually happened? Those lunatics are removing every single post that contains a link to other store(s) than Valve’s. They claim people are advertising? I understand those guys work for Valve in a way (they must obey the forum rules and enforce them) but seriously some of them should take a chill pill or simply calm the fuck down.
I mean look at last few pages of the original Looks like $1 = €1 after all thread. These guys are out of their minds and seriously out of the line here – deleting every single post with links to other stores because they claim that people are advertising!
But actually people are simply pasting links to different Steam alternatives like Good Old Games (the whole Fallout prices thing), Impulse, Direct2Drive and others and compare prices to Steam prices. That’s it.
Is comparing considered advertising? Maybe in their little brains but in the modern world it’s like this, when people see that they can get the same product for 50% or even cheaper, guess which place they will choose? Yes, Steam moderators, it’s hard to believe but they will chose the cheaper alternative which might be harsh for Valve’s business (I’ll give you that) but this is not to piss off Valve it’s to make them lower the prices. In real world when you see that some store sells the same stuff for a lot more cash your natural behavior would be coming up to that asshole and tell him that you and your friends will never shop here again because they rip-off people and guess what? A store owner with brain will actually think about that and do something about it. But not Valve, “the creators of best-selling game franchises and leading technologies”.
Right here, right now I ask everyone who’s interested to visit official Steam forums in their free time and defend our friends (or should I say friends of our cause?) who have some really good points there but are getting bashed by the childish moderators – of course most of Steam forums moderators are nice people and you should always remember that and you should also remember not to spam, rage or post offending stuff there because you will simply get banned.
Consider this message as simple rant and RAGE!!11 and ignore it if you don’t like it. Good night.
23 Responses to Steam Forums: The thread won’t die!
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I have had several posts deleted plus a 4 point infraction in the last few days. The rush to delete posts started around the time Steam announced the Interplay titles were for sale. Everyone pointed out that GOG was much cheaper, had no DRM and had extras included. The mods worked overtime deleting as much as they could.
I went through most of the Euro pricing thread and found that the mods really weren’t deleting everything related to other sales outlets, just a few of the other direct download sites posts and always deleting posts relating to GOG.
I think Valve is worried about GOG and the fact that they advertise no DRM! Posts containing price comparisons from the EAStore and D2D are rarely deleted. It’s become a zoo over there and the mods are to blame. They seem to think that by denying information, they can keep things under control. But instead, they are just pissing people off even more. And I think you are mis-judging the amount of good mods over there. You have a post deleted, you never know by who. You get an infraction, the mod never replies to a pm. They are just awful!
Stranded, I noticed that you no longer post at the Steam forums. Your new id wasn’t banned also was it?
I may be wrong, but I think that Steam forum are moderated by common people like you or me.
I believe that those moderators simply are abusing their powers, they think that they patriotically protect the company against rebellious european terrorists, who spam bad links and try to overthrow the King. We, Europeans, do NOT want to make rebellion, we just want that somebody can hear our voice and understand our situation and do something.
But in their ignorance they don’t understand that it is not right thing to do, they have to pass such information to Valve but they just delete.
I suggest to do that.
When pricing a game, then program checks, if there is given special price for EU by Developer/Publisher, if there is, then the price is, what they said, otherwise simply divide with current currency variable.
Like currently 10$ is 8€. So, simply divide US price with 1,25 and you will get 8€, you even get some profit.
European users will start buying more games from Steam then! Otherwise they buy from retail shops or alternative shops, because there are lots better prices.
No one, not even Valve persons or US citizens want to buy overpriced things.
My 5 cents.
You have been banned for the following reason:
Trolling / Flamebaiting
Date the ban will be lifted: Never
And another account banned… just asked the mwhy they deleted so much treads ? do the truth hurt that much ?
Moderators on Steampowered are cowared.. scared for a discussion and instant banning
LOL funny.. made a new account and found out thye deleted some of my msg.. including this line :
“Originally Posted by Roachz3
Funny how fast posts dissapear without even a single reaction in the pm (UK time)”
Why the fuck would they delete that ?? does the truth hurt that much ?
This is just too much, I agree with slay that those guys are just abusing their powers most of the time, but there is not much WE can do.
Of course we can, we all know they do read this site along with Valve folks. We just gotta make a huge deal out of it on the net.
Well, if they look here, i hope they are man enough to make an account and start discussing all the noncense bans they are making… ofcourse we WONT ban when proven wrong cause we arnt a couple of assholes.
Well if anyone from Valve/Steam moderators visit this site, they sure as hell won’t make comments on it. They will not participate in an open debate on this subject. That is why the current craziness has been going on. They really are scared of information flowing freely among it’s forums. The trouble is, that not many people at other sites are interested in what is going on.
I think its not such a big tragedy. Good things may happen because of wrong-doings of some Steampowered forum mods. For example this site. If they (Steampowered mods) would not had made mistakes they did, we would not have this site and community here. All our discussion would ended in one deep, endless and limited forum thread too boring to read. Its much more clear, simple and understandable to spread our word here.
Oh and we can advertise too if we want! ;)
But that’s our goal, get direct contact from Valve (not some conceited moderator with low iq) and politely speak about us, about our community, our problems, our ideas and so on. I believe that there are good and kind persons with we can freely speak with.
I believe that Valve’s idea is not simply keep Steam running and dictate whatever they want. They want to advance, get more market share and so on.
So why not collect EU citizen money? Why let competitors get all the money? I don’t think that this is Valve marketing strategy!
I think that they may be aware of that problem, but maybe they just don’t have enough resource to deal with it and try to delay according actions.
Remember, what happened, when they gave away Unreal Tournament 3 for ridiculous price and free weekend? They got hyperhuge (2000%!!!) player boost: http://store.steampowered.com/news/2334/
I fear that this moderation war seem to have started with one off my posts.
The events:
The post in question was structured like this:
——————————-
Fallout 3
Steam: 44.99€
Play.com: xx.xx€ ( Free delivery in some countries )
Steam is more expensive then Retail: xx€!
Times 4 or 5 titles.
——————————-
Like i said before on the Steam Forum, i’m trying to remember it from memory ( nobody expect that some day his posts become “illegal” ).
Now, for reference. This post did not contain any links. The store’s name was used. What is Play.com … There is no other way to write it. You can not just write “play: xx”… And it did not contain any url’s to the products off the “competition”.
After this post, a user commented on it ( instant email confirmation ). My post was deleted during the night ( GMT+1 ), and also the user his responds to it. After that, the user responded on the delete actions, a few times ( other instant email confirmations at that time ). Deleted again.
This triggered Matt ( Moderator ) to respond with his “official” answer that advertisement is not allowed. At this point in time, we know who the moderator is ( thats the fun thing about that moderator system. You don’t know who is deleting any posts, unless they make a comment, or pm somebody about it ( what they hardly do )! ).
And after that, the war between users, and moderators started ( again i might add. Its not the first time that a moderator stepped over the line. Triggering a war between users & moderators ).
I got this answer from a other moderator.
——————-
if you have an issue with a Moderator please PM them.
In answer to your question I believe advertising prices for games on another site like Play.com is not allowed. Kinda like adverting lower prices in side a Target Store about the same product at Walmart.
I will follow up with support and see if this is correct.
——————
The last line is the most interesting one… He did not know if his own colleague’s actions where supported or not, from Valve out. And wanted confirmation.
Lose cannons:
Now… Its know that the Steam forum has several lose cannons amongst its moderator staff. Matt is definably one.
There was no cursing, name calling, or anything going on. In all honesty, beyond maybe a bad word here & there, almost all ( minus a few rare exception ) off the posters in the 1$ = 1€ topic have acted as adults ( and have so the last 8 months ).
But in all earnest, this problem can be tracked back to one major problem. The fact that there is no oversight on the moderators. If we take a look at the moderators involved in most off the problems, it seems to trace back to the “old guard”. People who have had there moderator powers from a long time ago.
The problem:
It seems that there is no control over the actions off any moderator. And like any good old friends club, they cover each other rather nicely, vs those pesky users.
The fact/problem is, nobody is monitoring, the moderators. You know the old saying… “Who is watching, the watchers?”…
This is the main problem. When one moderator thinks a rule means x, and acts on it. As a end user, you have no defense.
* You can try to contact support. You answer will be: 0. Moderators even laugh when you tell them that you contact support to resolve this problem.
* You can try to contact the moderator in question ( like the moderators point out ). Chance off getting a useful answer back: 1/100. Most people get the silent treatment, or a replay that does not make any sense.
Like how the “steamunpowered.eu” link was a deletable, and bannable offense in the past. And the only answer that one person got, was “NSFW” ??? After a 100 or 200+ or so deleted posts?
*Try to contact other moderators, and well … The buddy service kicks in. Good luck on getting any help.
Effects:
In other words, several moderator are on a power trip because they lack supervision. Its even worse, when the moderators in question, can alter the forum rules at will.
So, we have moderators who are “Judge, Jury, and Executioners”.
Restoration:
I have yet to see any post be undeleted, or any ban revoked. From all the cases that people got “punished”. There has been only one case, where a Valve member stepped in, and undid the punishment ( and that was more because the employee noticed it by accident ).
Apologies?
There are times that moderators move entire threads. Come to the conclusions “whoops, yea, that did not belong in this thread after all”. And then … delete the posts.
And it seems when some get bored, that they start to enforce ( there own interpretation off ) rules, that have never been enforced before.
Whats even more fun, is how some moderators want to have the last word. Guess who draws the short end off the stick. Its not the moderator… So who is it? ;)
We can call ourself lucky, that the moderators do not have access to the accounts that people own.
Time:
While some people will wonder when reading this… Why bother to fight a war with the moderators. Because its in people behavior to try and fight tyranny. Even when it take the end user 5, 10,30,60 minutes to write a post, and see all that hard work destroyed, by the 2 second click off the “delete” button from a moderator.
Even more strange, when the moderators know that they are wrong, they do not undelete the posting ( they do have the power ). They can even still read the deleted posts.
Whats also “fun” is the fact that every attempt at any public talk about moderator misconduct, is swiftly punished under the “no backseat moderating” rule/law. Allowing any misconduct to be suppressed. And we all know how easy it is to get anybody neutral to stage a intervention ( does not exist ).
Control:
In my eyes, the moderators need to get some structured control. Rules do not need to be set by the moderators, but by somebody above them.
Users need to be able to file a complaint against a moderator for power abuse.
Moderators there delete / punish ability needs to be limited. Maybe x deletes / day. So that they learn to use there deletes wisely.
In other words, its time for rules for the moderators.
In my personal opinion, the way the moderation is going on, is only creating a more major problem. It reinforces what more & more EU people think about Valve.
The price increase that now reaches up to 500% on some titles. The suppression off any external information ( like steamunpowered.eu ). The suppression now off any price discussion. And many other offenses.
Note: by my personal count, the deleted posts ranks up to 35+ ( those that i have witness to disappear ). God knows how many it really is. Probably 4 or 5 times more with ease, as there where 4 confirmed moderators active in quelling the uproar.
Wulfklaue
I don’t know about you guys but I always complained about moderators using Steam Support. But as you can see this didn’t change a thing.
Nice wall of text ;) actually I read it all, good comment.
Stranded:
Who said that contacting Support does not work? I do need to point out, that i made a very detailed support ticked with the problems at hand ( and also included those 55 question ). I also proved my credentials etc…
If you think my post above was long, you did not see my support ticked ;)
I got this reply from Steam Support:
—————————-
Thank you for contacting Steam Support. I have instructed the volunteer moderators not to delete posts in the 1$=1€ Forum thread except in cases where there is an egregious violation of our Terms of Use. The Support department is not the group that is going to have answers for your questions regarding pricing policies. You should address them to xxxx xxxx xxx@valvesoftware.com our director of business development.
—————————-
I have cut out the name, and email address. I’ll mail that person later on.
I hope this information is of use.
advertising
1. communication whose purpose is to inform potential customers about products and services
I think I made my point.
Oh look :
vBulletin Message
You have been banned for the following reason:
Ban Evasion
Date the ban will be lifted: 11-26-2009, 08:00 AM
Thats a new 1..
Guess ill have to make a new new account… Moderators are stupid.
Wulfklaue, you are correct about Matt. He is the only moderator who has given me infractions. His comments on the infraction are just copy/pasted from the SSA in the pm he sends and he never responds to pm’s himself. He must really feel that he is above us mere posters.
I think the big thing that the mods miss is that everyone they ban or harrass is a customer. And when you tick people off enough, they no longer are customers. This might be the reason you finally got a response from support. It might be dawning on some people at Valve that hey our mods are chasing off customers and their money.
Man, Wulfklaue post was really really something.
So seems like it is what I was afraid of and mentioned in some of my previous comments.
There are bunch of guys who doesn’t care about justice, they cover eachother, make their own rules, say oops, i did it again, if something goes wrong. Most likely they are irresponsible “super-anti-terrorists”, who thinks that they are good guys and all others are bad guys. I even think that maybe they event don’t remember what war they are fighting for, who is the company that they should protect, like horses with blindfolds. They have lost their grip.
That’s why we should not try to turn forum into a battleground.
Because if we really manage to slay the dragon (or sneak past) and reach the highest floor in the tower, then we realize that there is no princess!?!
We should find the other, polite and diplomatic way to get to the princess. Remember, be nice to the girl! Be nice to the girl and you will get laid :)
lol trying to be nice to a bitch just doesn’t work, you’ll only get suckered xD
Hey, I checked little bit that forum thing and they said that this is steam forum, not impulse, not gog, not play.com forum etc.
So why not to inform people about prices in steam only!
Compare US, UK and EU prices! I want to see moderator faces, when you hit them with that. This is legal! It is steam store, they can’t argue with that.
Posts something like that:
Steamunpowered.eu doesn’t recommend to buy following things, because of the unfair pricing.
Mind that even if the price is same in dollars and euros, the price in euros is 44% more expensive.
Here is list of games that have over 100% (more that twice) higher price for Europeans. We believe that those prices are mistakes and Valve/Steam doesn’t really want them to be so high, because Europeans just don’t buy those games with such high price. We believe that Valve/Steam wants to fix those prices and win back more market in EU. EU isn’t that small you know :P
Mirror’s Edge:
US: $19.99
UK: N/A
EU: 49,99€ (259% higher)
Quantum of Solace:
US: $19.99
UK: £29.99 (144% higher)
EU: 49,99€ (259% higher)
Clive Barker’s Jericho:
US: $9.99
UK: £9.99 (63% higher)
EU: 19,99€ (188% higher)
Happy Tree Friends False Alarm:
US: $9.99
UK: £14.99 (144% higher)
EU: 19,99€ (188% higher)
Mass Effect:
US: $19.99
UK: N/A
EU: 44,99€ (223% higher)
Command and Conquer: Red Alert 3:
US: $29.99
UK: N/A
EU: 49,99€ (140% higher)
Dark Sector:
US: $19.99
UK: £14.99 (22% higher)
EU: 29,99€ (116% higher)
Dead Space:
US: $29.99
UK: N/A
EU: 44,99€ (116% higher)
Dracula Origin:
US: $19.99
UK: £16.99 (38% higher)
EU Tier 1/2: 29,99€ (116% higher)
EU Tier 3: 19,99€ (44% higher)
Drakensang:
US: $29.99
UK: £29.99 (63% higher)
EU: 49,99€ (140% higher)
Far Cry® 2:
US: $19.99
UK: £19.99 (63% higher)
EU: 29,99€ (116% higher)
FIFA Manager 09:
US: $29.99
UK: N/A
EU: 49,99€ (140% higher)
Infernal:
US: $9.99
UK: £5.99 (2% lower)
EU: 14,99€ (116% higher)
Kane and Lynch: Dead Men™:
US: $19.99
UK: £13.99 (14% higher)
EU: 29,99€ (116% higher)
Need for Speed Undercover:
US: $29.99
UK: N/A
EU: 49,99€ (140% higher)
Restaurant Empire II:
US: $19.99
UK: £19.99 (63% higher)
EU: 29,99€ (116% higher)
Rome: Total War™ – Complete:
US: $9.99
UK: £9.99 (63% higher)
EU: 14,99€ (116% higher)
EE: 14,99€ (116% higher)
Saints Row 2:
US: $29.99
UK: £34.99 (90% higher)
EU: 49,99€ (140% higher)
Shellshock 2: Blood Trails:
US: $29.99
UK: £29.99 (63% higher)
EU Tier 1/2: 49,99€ (140% higher)
EU Tier 4: 39,99€ (92% higher)
Stormrise:
US: $29.99
UK: £29.99 (63% higher)
EU: 44,99€ (116% higher)
Tom Clancy’s EndWar™:
US: $29.99
UK: £34.99 (90% higher)
EU: 49,99€ (140% higher)
Virtua Tennis 2009:
US: $29.99
UK: £29.99 (63% higher)
EU: 44,99€ (116% higher)
Wheelman:
US: $29.99
UK: £29.99 (63% higher)
EU: 49,99€ (140% higher)
World In Conflict:
US: $19.99
UK: £19.99 (63% higher)
EU: 29,99€ (116% higher)
The prices for Mass Effect and Mirror’s Edge are really strange, considering both games cost only 19.99€ at the German EA Shop and we all know how bad their prices are.
Also I saw Saint Row 2 (German Cut) for 7.99€ Retail a few days ago when I picked up Splinter Cell Complete.
I got banned a while ago on the Steam forums for posting in that thread…
The reason was “Flame baiting and trolling”
All i did was tell the guys how shit Aion’s price was on STEAM, it’s 60 dollars in america and 60 EUROS in Romania…
60 USD in romania is 174.05 RON, at the time i am writing this…
On the other hand, 60 EUROS = 255.71 RON…
That’s a whole fucking lot to pay extra :(
Unfortunately, NCsoft has the same prices for Europe on their site…
I loved the beta and i wanted to preorder it, but with prices like these i’ll wait for it to get to my local gaming retail store…
Besides, 60 EUROS is alot to fucking pay for a MMO, considering that it is P2P…
hah.
I got very good picture about moderators:
http://www.oprea.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/spad_moderator.jpg
:D
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